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Physical copies vs. Digital copies
February 13, 2013
12:12 pm
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t3tr1s
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I’m with you Ghost, its crazy.. Now that I have my own family I have much different priorities.. Now a few years ago, I probably would have pulled the trigger on a copy by now

February 13, 2013
1:49 pm
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Mongunzoo
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One of the reasons that I refuse to participate in most of modern gaming is the blatant anti-consumer policies that are sinking the ship.  Look at Nintendo.  How easy would it have been to just have an account system that GUARANTEES my ownership forever like the ISystems and Ultraviolet? 

 

No account system makes it worthless to me.  The VC had so much promise, but as a FORMER investor in Nintendo (former because I got out) I know all too well how this company works these days.  For a little while they ALMOST seemed to get it with the Wii and Iwata’s “heart of the gamer” speech but alas.

 

Why are the users paying ANYTHING at all? There is absolutely no work that needs to be done to display a SNES game on the Gamepad. And if there does need to be worke, then Nintendo screwed up with the hardware. It is just streaming it over. Movies don’t require that type of work. There’s no reason to be paying money at all.

I don’t give a damn about Miiverse integration!  i don’t give a damn about social networking on games! When I buy Super Mario Brothers, I just want to play Super Mario Brothers. I don’t want to join a ‘community’ of Super Mario Brothers.  To Hell with this!

Do I ever OWN these games? Apparently not. I just get a ‘discount’ for buying the same exact game all over again.  I want to own a collection. Nintendo’s Virtual Console is worthless to me.  I want the console to give me access to a COLLECTION of games.  Instead, we get this awful integrated-hardware-and-software crap philosophy rammed down our throats.  Maybe I want to play the VC game without all this stuff.  Since Wii’s VC games already run on the Wii U, there is no reason not to open up the Wii’s VC console for this job.  If people wish to upgrade to Gamepad or Miiverse support, they can do so.

I want to OWN these games. Still no account system. So it’s Worthless.

 

It’s crap like this that make me stay out of modern gaming…..

 

 

 

Exploring the New World on Nintendo Switch. Currently Playing: Zelda BOTW, Octopath Traveler, Sonic Mania, Yoku's Island Express, Mega Man 11. Currently Watching: Marble Hornets, Luther, Black Mirror, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5. Currently Reading: Influence by Robert Cialdini.

February 13, 2013
1:51 pm
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RushDawg

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It’s pretty callous the approach Nintendo’s taken with forcing gamers to rebuy their VC games on the Wii U.  Makes me shake my head.

 

I wonder if Microsoft and Sony will do a better job with their new consoles.

Now playing: SNES - Phalanx, R-Type III, Genesis - Bio Hazard Battle, PS3 - Dragon's Crown

February 13, 2013
1:56 pm
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t3tr1s
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isn’t there a dollar fee to transfer each game from your Wii to your Wii U? I just think that Nintendos business model isnt really up to par.. Microsoft does seem to have the best 1 currently.

February 13, 2013
2:17 pm
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Mongunzoo
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Nintendo seems to be in a state of denial about their failures since the 3DS.  They simply refuse to acknowledge that their paradigm is wrong, that the mass-market is rejecting their philosophies.  The CEO of Gamespot just said that the WiiU needs a “Blockbuster” to sell hardware.   Hahahahahaha!  newsflash:  you launched with the greatest killer App in gaming!  If 2D Mario will not sell your console, what will?  

Wii Sports?  No announcement of the greatest gaming phenom of our time.  It looks like Nintendo will let Microsoft steal these customers…

3D mario?  It has never moved hardware like 2D Mario despite bigger budgets, orchestral soundtracks, art assets, etc.

Zelda?  With the current direction I doubt it.

Metroid:  No.  Not so long as Sakamoto is at the helm.

Not to mention that Nintendo has never had to develop in HD before!  It is much more expensive.  Just ask the HUNDREDS of studios who have closed or become beggars on kickstarter because of the increase in expenditures.

 

I fear for Nintendo this generation……

 

It is rumored that Sony sure has some big plans.  4K Television?  3D Push?  If this is true, watch as they overshoot the market just like last time.  Someday they will learn that we don’t want or need all this shit.  We just want to play games.  Every time I turn my PS3 on I have to do some hardware update, then a menu update, then a software update just to get to my game.  Is it any wonder I only use it as a secondary Blu-Ray player and a Dark Souls Machine?

 

Microsoft is in the best business position with their live model (it pays for failures elsewhere), but it seems they are hellbent on pursuing some “social-media box with DRM and used-game block.  If they do this they will suffer for it.  Also to be seen if they can build a system, that works for more than 6 months. 

 

We will see……………………..

 

Exploring the New World on Nintendo Switch. Currently Playing: Zelda BOTW, Octopath Traveler, Sonic Mania, Yoku's Island Express, Mega Man 11. Currently Watching: Marble Hornets, Luther, Black Mirror, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5. Currently Reading: Influence by Robert Cialdini.

February 13, 2013
8:38 pm
grimm

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I prefer physical copies of games, books, music etc for two reasons. 1, they are more fun to look at and display on a shelf, than showing a guy a list of files in a map on your computer. 2, you can easily lend your stuff to friends etc.

Only thing that really speaks for digital copies, is less materials wasted on packaging and storage media, which is a good thing and not to be underestimated as we run towards ruining our world without looking back..

Also, i hate companies who sell games for download at the same price as a physical copy, when the digital copy is so much cheaper to get to the customer, there is literally NO logistics involved, there is NO material involved, and there are NO middle hands involved. Those savings should go towards the customer, and not down publisher’s pockets. Its stealing, just as much as they claim file-sharing of ANY kind is stealing (when in fact it was the movie industry and computer giants who pioneered the file-sharing software, hows that for irony?).

I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means i can come across as rigid and overly argumentative. Please try and look past this and contact me if you have a problem with what/how i type. I type and read very literally and use no undertones. Thank you for trying to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....r_syndrome

February 13, 2013
8:46 pm
grimm

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Mongunzoo said

“Every time I turn my PS3 on I have to do some hardware update, then a menu update, then a software update just to get to my game. “

 

You must turn it on once every six months or less often then Mongunzoo. You should try to exaggerate a little less blatantly. I think ive had to update the XMB once the past 6 months, if not longer. Game updates are also very infrequent, too infrequent in some instances. You can like more simple systems all you want, i can appreciate that myself, but dont make this into something its not.

 

I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means i can come across as rigid and overly argumentative. Please try and look past this and contact me if you have a problem with what/how i type. I type and read very literally and use no undertones. Thank you for trying to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....r_syndrome

February 13, 2013
8:51 pm
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Mongunzoo
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Yeah, the last time I turned it on was for the Dark Souls DLC.  By the time I got through that I was done….didn’t even feel like playing it.

Exploring the New World on Nintendo Switch. Currently Playing: Zelda BOTW, Octopath Traveler, Sonic Mania, Yoku's Island Express, Mega Man 11. Currently Watching: Marble Hornets, Luther, Black Mirror, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5. Currently Reading: Influence by Robert Cialdini.

February 13, 2013
9:22 pm
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Mongunzoo
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It’s not an exaggeration to me.  I am tired of updating a system every time I buy a game for it, because developers couldn’t play test the game before they ship it.  The point of the console is that it is supposed to be SIMPLER.  I play on a console to AVOID this shit.

 

Look at Fallout:New Vegas.  Worthless at first because of all the bugs.

 

The Day I did the update I had to leave for work.  I figured “hell, why not give the new Dark Souls content a shot before I go?”

 

2 hours later as I get my coat on “oh, Well.”

*Turns system off and leaves.

 

That was not an exaggeration.  That is what happened.  As for simpler systems.  Yeah, if I can avoid Buggy Games that are shipped without play-testing and having my experience interrupted by a million messages. 

Absolutely.

 

Exploring the New World on Nintendo Switch. Currently Playing: Zelda BOTW, Octopath Traveler, Sonic Mania, Yoku's Island Express, Mega Man 11. Currently Watching: Marble Hornets, Luther, Black Mirror, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5. Currently Reading: Influence by Robert Cialdini.

February 14, 2013
9:09 am
grimm

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Game updates is one thing, system updates is another. You do not need to update your system often at all since Sony rarely makes changes to the XMB. You do not have to update your system every time you buy a game that requires a game update. Stop saying that as it is untrue. However frustrating you might think patches are, they are not system updates, they are game updates. And i own over 25 PS3 games and few of them requires game updates, and even fewer “every time i wanna play”.

 

As for simpler systems, i was speaking about the system itself. There are plenty of buggy games for older simpler systems out there, where a game update couldve fixed them, even if there was less that may be perceived today. What you again fail to do is put things in its correct perspective. In no way can you compare a game for the NES to a PS3 game. No way what so ever. They were made completely differently, and the programming required for a NES game is ridiculously simple and short compared to the massive amounts of coding and content you get with for example Skyrim, or New Vegas. I am not surprised at all that Skyrim has many bugs, if you take in the fact you can spend 400h+ with that game without doing a single quest over again. I know, i have done it. Sure, the game freezes sometimes, the game sometimes has quest ending bugs that are annoying and frustrating, but considering the massive amounts of possible glitches and bugs you can get, considering how extremely complex the game is, and how un-liniar the game is, i dont whine about the bugs in the game, or the updates (which have been too few for me) required to make it run even smoother. You also fail to see that current game consoles ARE NOT consoles, they are specifically made computers. Simplified only in user interface and input. In every other aspect they are a computer. 

 

Basiically, you cant compare. You can prefer one system over the other, but you cant compare them saying “oh i didnt require all these updates for my games on this old system”, when talking about the current generation. Its not even in the same universe, let alone ballpark.

 

I agree with you on one part though, many games could use better quality control before release, but compare how complex even the simple games of today can be to code, compared with older gaming systems, and you should realize why i definetly thing you exaggerate, and not even a little. I have not played Dark Souls in particular, but ive NEVER had a 2h game update since i first got my first ps3 n 2008, not even the rare system updates takes that long to download or install. But that may be down to your internet connection, so im not calling you a liar. But really, you dont have to update your game every time you wanna play it, unless you almost never do.

 

And by the way, you can turn off messages in the system menu.

I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means i can come across as rigid and overly argumentative. Please try and look past this and contact me if you have a problem with what/how i type. I type and read very literally and use no undertones. Thank you for trying to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....r_syndrome

February 14, 2013
10:42 am
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t3tr1s
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I agree that they need more testing before they release a game is a final product. It just seems they’re lazy and they do figure that they can just say well we will release a patch and everyone will just be forced to download in order to fix a bug…

without the internet though you are kind of in a boat without a paddle

February 14, 2013
11:22 am
grimm

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Again, today’s games are extremely complex compared to 16-bit era. Would you be willing to wait 6-12 months longer for a game to go through all sorts of long term gameplay testing to try and weed out every single possible bug there might be in games like Bethesda titles etc? Most will not, so we have game updates for when serious things get uncovered. It may be annoying, but its a by-product of the capitalist market that Mongunzoo fully supports. Get stuff out to people and sell as much as you can, dont wait or you might lose a few customers.

 

Had the complexity been a factor back in nes/snes-era, you’d have a lot more bugs then too. 

I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means i can come across as rigid and overly argumentative. Please try and look past this and contact me if you have a problem with what/how i type. I type and read very literally and use no undertones. Thank you for trying to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....r_syndrome

February 14, 2013
11:29 am
grimm

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grimm said

Game updates is one thing, system updates is another. You do not need to update your system often at all since Sony rarely makes changes to the XMB. You do not have to update your system every time you buy a game that requires a game update. Stop saying that as it is untrue. However frustrating you might think patches are, they are not system updates, they are game updates. And i own over 25 PS3 games and few of them requires game updates, and even fewer “every time i wanna play”.

 

As for simpler systems, i was speaking about the system itself. There are plenty of buggy games for older simpler systems out there, where a game update couldve fixed them, even if there was less that may be perceived today. What you again fail to do is put things in its correct perspective. In no way can you compare a game for the NES to a PS3 game. No way what so ever. They were made completely differently, and the programming required for a NES game is ridiculously simple and short compared to the massive amounts of coding and content you get with for example Skyrim, or New Vegas. I am not surprised at all that Skyrim has many bugs, if you take in the fact you can spend 400h+ with that game without doing a single quest over again. I know, i have done it. Sure, the game freezes sometimes, the game sometimes has quest ending bugs that are annoying and frustrating, but considering the massive amounts of possible glitches and bugs you can get, considering how extremely complex the game is, and how un-liniar the game is, i dont whine about the bugs in the game, or the updates (which have been too few for me) required to make it run even smoother. You also fail to see that current game consoles ARE NOT consoles, they are specifically made computers. Simplified only in user interface and input. In every other aspect they are a computer. 

 

Basiically, you cant compare. You can prefer one system over the other, but you cant compare them saying “oh i didnt require all these updates for my games on this old system”, when talking about the current generation. Its not even in the same universe, let alone ballpark.

 

I agree with you on one part though, many games could use better quality control before release, but compare how complex even the simple games of today can be to code, compared with older gaming systems, and you should realize why i definetly thing you exaggerate, and not even a little. I have not played Dark Souls in particular, but ive NEVER had a 2h game update since i first got my first ps3 n 2008, not even the rare system updates takes that long to download or install. But that may be down to your internet connection, so im not calling you a liar. But really, you dont have to update your game every time you wanna play it, unless you almost never do.

 

And by the way, you can turn off messages in the system menu.

 

Edited: I feel i should mention that the longest install operation ive ever had on the PS3, was when i chose the largest install possible for Gran Turismo 5. That took about an hour for me, im on a 100mb line but cant really tell how fast stuff got downloaded. from the moment i started the download and install process to when i entered the game it as about an hour. The next longest install/download ive done was when they upgraded GT5 with like 2gb worth of information. Those are the extreme examples, and they were maybe a year a part? i dont remember.

I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means i can come across as rigid and overly argumentative. Please try and look past this and contact me if you have a problem with what/how i type. I type and read very literally and use no undertones. Thank you for trying to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....r_syndrome

February 14, 2013
4:58 pm
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Mongunzoo
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 I will trust you when you say that most games do not do this every time, or for 2 hours.  I really do not play enough PS3 to know.  Perhaps its a problem with my router?

 

All I know is it is enough of a problem for me to notice it every time I use it!  Still, I never really thought about it from the complexity angle before, and I suppose that is true.  But you cannot tell me that many developers are saving on QA and sticking it to their customers because “we can patch it later”.

 

I DO understand that these machines are basically gimped gaming PCs, but does the average customer want this?  The entire story of console gaming is triumphing over much more technologically superior PCs limited tech!  look at the Atari, the  NES, The Genesis and SNES, and the Wii for eras when console gaming won against superior PCs.  The original point of the console was to get away from computer complexity and break it down into something palatable to the masses.  So if the console is becoming a computer, then it is not doing the job it was intended to do.  It is doing a crappier job of what the PC does.  So why not just get a gaming PC?  That would certainly explain the Falloff occurring in console gaming, while PC remains steady.  Most console gamers will not jump in to PC gaming, they will just fall off.

 

And they have done just that.  Gaming has experienced no real growth since the 16-bit era.  Instead it has ridden Macro-Economic Trends such as Population Growth expansion into new markets, gamers with more disposable income, etc.  And most of this occurred in economic  good times.  Since the Economy has reversed, the macro economic trends have hit a wall (There are no new profitable territories, Young Adult Males have been hit hardest by the recession(you know, the ones who buy the most games?) And population in first-world nations is tapering off)  AND games continue to get more expensive to make, gaming would eventually decline.

 

It can’t last.  Studio Closures and Publishers getting Drawn and Quartered are happening now!  What happens when we jump into the next era where everything is AGAIN made more expensive?  There is such a thing as good enough to most customers.  And we passed Good Enough a long time ago…

Exploring the New World on Nintendo Switch. Currently Playing: Zelda BOTW, Octopath Traveler, Sonic Mania, Yoku's Island Express, Mega Man 11. Currently Watching: Marble Hornets, Luther, Black Mirror, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5. Currently Reading: Influence by Robert Cialdini.

February 14, 2013
7:31 pm
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Masamune

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I just wanted to clarify something about playing Wii Virtual Console games on the Wii U. You will be able to transfer and play your Virtual Console games from the Wii to the Wii U for free. However they won’t have gamepad support. You’ll only be able to play the games with a classic controller.

If you want to play those games you already paid for with the Wii U gamepad, you have to pay a $1 fee for the convenience of doing that.

February 14, 2013
7:39 pm
grimm

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I disagree with pretty much everything you just said Mongunzoo. And ive already had this discussion with you too many times to go that route again.

 

My end comment will simply be this. If you dont like that consoles are computers (and no they arnt winning against a true gaming computer, not by a longshot) then just simply get rid of your PS3 and stick to your Snes or similar era consoles. Plenty of games there to keep you busy and entertained for a very long time. If you think gaming has gone down the drain, stick with the classics then.

I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means i can come across as rigid and overly argumentative. Please try and look past this and contact me if you have a problem with what/how i type. I type and read very literally and use no undertones. Thank you for trying to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....r_syndrome

February 14, 2013
8:27 pm
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RushDawg

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Masamune said
I just wanted to clarify something about playing Wii Virtual Console games on the Wii U. You will be able to transfer and play your Virtual Console games from the Wii to the Wii U for free. However they won’t have gamepad support. You’ll only be able to play the games with a classic controller.

If you want to play those games you already paid for with the Wii U gamepad, you have to pay a $1 fee for the convenience of doing that.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was under the impression you had to rebuy them!  

Now playing: SNES - Phalanx, R-Type III, Genesis - Bio Hazard Battle, PS3 - Dragon's Crown

February 14, 2013
8:44 pm
grimm

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And thats another worry with digital copies.. They charge you fees for stuff you have already purchased. Its like coming to your door saying “oh btw, we want more money if you wanna continue playing the game you bought at the store a while back, on your new system.”

Also. what happens to your digital stuff if you should die? Physical stuff you leave behind, you can pretty much testament however you want, in accordance to local inheritance laws etc, but digital stuff? WHat about those? Today you might well have spent more on those things and they are legally yours, and then they just perish if you do? Doesnt seem right.

I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means i can come across as rigid and overly argumentative. Please try and look past this and contact me if you have a problem with what/how i type. I type and read very literally and use no undertones. Thank you for trying to understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....r_syndrome

February 14, 2013
10:03 pm
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Kanto1992
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Grimm, I have a feeling that our legal system will be forced to make rules concerning that in a few decades.  It will become an issue when people alive today become old and start dying as a group.  

Currently looking for the following SNES games:

Chrono Trigger

EarthBound

Final Fantasy II (Final Fantasy IV)

Secret of Mana

Illusion of Gaia

Super Castlevania IV

Super Mario RPG

Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island

 Zombies Ate My Neighbors

TMNT IV

Contra III

February 15, 2013
2:38 am
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Mongunzoo
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Disagree all you want.  But it is happening all around you.  Valve layoffs.  THQ being Drawn and Quartered.  Over 200 Studios closed since HD began.  NPD and MediaCrate posting study after study on the need to expand the demographic.

 

You’re Right.  It’s a dead horse and I’m not going to change your mind.  But I WILL present the data for those that are interested in why this decline is occurring.

 

And as a potential customer who would LOVE to eventually play some NEW games instead of the older ones ad infinitum, I WILL make my voice heard.  Be glad that I still care enough to discuss it with concern.  Most people who think like me don’t give a shit enough to have these conversations about games, they just disappear, leaving the conversation to be monopolized by the “hardcore”.  I believe this is a big part of the problem, since developers cannot correct something if they do not know that there is a problem.  Disinterest is the true enemy.  So be glad we have these debates.  Because this isn’t the nineties anymore.  If we keep on this path then one day we will all be retro gamers.

 

 

Exploring the New World on Nintendo Switch. Currently Playing: Zelda BOTW, Octopath Traveler, Sonic Mania, Yoku's Island Express, Mega Man 11. Currently Watching: Marble Hornets, Luther, Black Mirror, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5. Currently Reading: Influence by Robert Cialdini.

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