Does anyone else think the N64 is overrated?|General Gaming Discussion|Forum|SNES HUB

The N64 is going through its first wave of nostalgia as many kids who grew up on it are entering into their 20’s.  This is the same thing that happened when the NES, SNES and Genesis kids grew up.

That said, even for its time, the N64 was not considered the top console.  The PS1 had a better library on just about all fronts.

Of course, all consoles from this generation have 3D games that have aged terribly.

Mong, I’d have to respectfully disagree with you that Metroid dropped the lonesome exploration focus when going 3D.  Metroid Prime is very much Super Metroid in a 3D world.  If you turn off the hint system, it’s basically just you on a planet trying to figure stuf out.  It does have that lame fetch quest at the end though.

Right, I am not stating that no one liked it, just that I didn’t and that the mass market was cold to it.

In terms of what’s better……..Hmmm……

N64:

System:Wacky Uncomfortable controller that scared the market away.Had to upgrade hardware to play some games with that special chip (perfect dark, DK64, etc)  NO LOAD TIMES.  No backwards Compatibility or classic compilations.  If you liked the NES and SNES, hope you still kept your system!  four controllers expanded Multiplayer capability and that is what the system became known for.

-Games

1.Mario:  Mario 64 is still the most successful 3d Mario release.  While it did not do anything for me, it did create a fanbase.

2.Zelda:  Ocarina of Time proved 3D Zelda was viable.  To date it is the best-selling game in the series.

3.Metroid:  Was Not Present

4.Donkey Kong 64:  ANOTHER 3D platformer.  At this point I knew I was not going to get my 2D Platformer fix on this system.

5.Kirby:  As close as I got to the above, and it was the weakest traditional Kirby Game.

6.Star Fox:  I loved Star Fox 64, though it lacked the difficulty of the original.

7.Mario Kart:  Some consider this the best in the series, though I disagree.  The tracks went on tooo long and were boring to me.  Still a Mario kart, though.

8.F-Zero:  Much like Star Fox, F-Zero Benefitted from 3D capabilities(never let it be said that I ALWAYS bash 3D)

9.Pilotwings:  Ditto for Pilotwings

10.Yoshi:  I found this entry repulsive and lacking of content, and so did the mass market. 

11.Perfect Dark/Goldeneye:  These games were SO much fun!  The controller actually worked for these games.  Ports of Doom, Duke Nukem, and Quake followed.  This was where to be for shooters.

12.Banjo Games:I actually enjoyed these more than Mario and DK, which made me ask the question:  IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A GOOD PLATFORMER IN BANJO, WHY THE HELL WON’T YOU JUST MAKE MARIO AND DK 2D LIKE EVERYONE WANTED?!?  Fulfill another appetite……

13.ExciteBike 64:Another good Effort and even the SNES missed out on this franchise!  I loved this game!

14.Smash Brothers:NEW FRANCHISE ALERT!  This was another fun game, AND IN 2D!!!

15.3rd Party Support:  The N64 lost 3rd Party support to the Playstation.  all the good 3rd party games were on another platform. 

So which do I like better?  Well, neither.

Each has it’s strengths, and each has its weaknesses, and neither one is for me, especially since I was able to get all I wanted form each out of the Wii’s VC.

At the end of the day, The N64 lost due to it’s complete lack of 3rd party support, and the Gamecube had 3rd party support but went off the rails on their Wacky 1st party efforts that scared the market away.  Neither controller helped in this regard.

The difference is that YOU CAN ONLY GET 1ST PARTY ON THAT SYSTEM.  That is why the 1st party software is so important.  It sells the hardware.  That is why the N64 was a more gradual decline and the GC went into freefall.

In the case of the Gamecube if you don’t like BongoKongCountry, SplashMario, PuzzCelda, and WalkFox then it’s too bad since thats what you get.  Nintendo told me they were refusing to maker the games I wanted, so I told them where they could stick it and just kept playing my SNES.

Look at the performance of 2D Mario and DKC.  Across the board have been system sellers that moves hardware.  Why make this game into a 3D Platformer especially when you have the superior Banjo-Kazooie to do that job?  A 2D Mario and DKC in 64 bits using the ideas from those games in 2D would be incredible as well as feed the 2D platformer appetite.  You would then have Banjo-kazooie and Conker for the 3D platformer appetite.  It would have given the N64 depth.

So why would you rip the proven gameplay skeleton out of these behemoth’s and replace it with a completely different one?  What purpose does that serve but to alienate that original audience?  If I want to play a Bongo game I am looking for a new appetite, NOT FUCKING DONKEY KONG!  It should have been a new IP, which would STRENGTHEN NINTENDO more than just skinning a Bongo Game with DK.  Then Nintendo would have two franchises (1 new, 1 best-selling) instead of one that bombs.  The reason I say I am not a fan of the GameCube has less to do with 3rd party (which I can play anywhere) and more to do with the sick surgery Nintendo forced on my favorite games, making them unrecognizable to me.

Nintendo needs to wake up and understand that they do not get to define the product.  WE DO.  The more they fight the market’s expectations with WackyAnimeZelda and BongoKong and MommyMetroid the longer they will suffer.  I don’t care if it is fun, and will never know because I was so repulsed that my beloved DK was being used to sell this concept.  If the concept is strong it would sell itself.

Honestly the look is just a symptom of the real problem I have with modern Zelda.  If it was just the look I could deal with it.  That said, do you not remember everyone mockiong it when it first came out?  I distinctly remember the reaction being negative.

The biggest problem I have with Zelda is that it no longer plays like Zelda.  Zelda used to be an Action RPG with an emphasis on exploration.

Zelda 1 was an action RPG with an emphasis on action. A combat and exploration-themed adventure. It sold very well and would have sold even more if there had not been a cartridge shortage.

Zelda 2 was an action RPG with an emphasis on action. A combat and exploration-themed adventure. It sold very well and would have sold even more if there had not been a cartridge shortage.

Zelda ALTTP was an action RPG with an emphasis on action. A combat and exploration-themed adventure. It sold very well and would have sold even more if it did not have intense competition from Genesis that split gaming’s user base.

Zelda OoT was was an action RPG with an emphasis on action. Though elements such as more puzzles and linearity got worse here it also upheld its end of the bargain. Z-targeting was revolutionary at the time and added to the intensity and tactile feel of the combat. And there were places in the game that were over-the top atmospheric. So while it could be linear it also made you want to explore every inch of it. It sold very well was the Zelda that penetrated the market the most.

………………and this is where the problems began.

Majoras Mask, while be re-written as a classic (and I personally enjoyed it despite it’s faults) was a failure at the time. It was the beginning of the puzzle dungeons getting out of hand, and combat was de-emphasized in favor of interaction with the feckless and contemptible citizens of hyrule. It sold less titles than any in the series history.  But this was also a spinoff so this is forgiven.

Wind Waker was NOT a spinoff.  It gave us a EMPTY world where the average prize for exploration was a ruby. Dungeons were few and combat was de-emphasized to such an extent that your SWORD was taken away on occasions. Puzzles were the name of the day and I would have to put down my controller and make a sandwich before I was at risk of dying.  It sold like shit and was a failure by series standards.  this was Aonumas second game and I think he was in denial about the markets rejection of his Zelda philosophy at this time.  But after this game bombed and failed to sell GC Hardware Nintendo took action.

With Twilight Princess Zelda came home again to many. It seemed to be a return to form for those that remembered OoT, with similar music, art direction, ect. It gave us an incredible yet under-used combat system that I would have loved to have had a reason to use more than once or twice. It also hid it’s eccentricities well. I cannot remember a single thing from this game, and that is a condemnation of its quality, but it sold very well, despite sharing many of WW faults.  Part of this is due to Miyamoto taking a direct hand in development halfway through.  Many changes were made.

Skyward Sword was a disaster for the company. Their most expensive game ever , it failed to move more than 3.5 million on a system of over 90 MILLION users, 40 million or so of which had WiiMotion Plus.
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So that said, what do I want from the new Zelda?

1. I am a WARRIOR not an ERRAND_BOY
I want to Fight. I want to fight dangerous monsters in dangerous locales. I do not want my sword taken from me unless it is replaced with a spear or an axe or a hammer!!!!!! I do not want to do fetch-quests for Regal Unabrows and Red pompadours and Fairy Manchildren and Evil Babies!!!!!!

2. I am an EXPLORER not a GARBAGE MAN
I want to explore. I want to enter Dungeon 5 and see whats in there before I find dungeon 1. I want to find an island and have more than a Deku Stick be my reward. I want an interesting landscape. I want a real OVERWORLD.

3. I am a HERO, not a TOOL.
I want a story that revolves around an adventure, not link, Zelda, and Gannon. Those are only the means to the end. Zelda resonated so well because it was based on Western Fantasy. Stop with this Quirky nonsense and get back to that. I do not care about this convoluted and ridiculous story, I want to tell my OWN Story in a dangerous land.

In short, I want more of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S7HWvT8 … Wi&index=4

And less of this

Sales are the closest thing to a “general consensus” a product has.

The reason why TP seems that way is because they WERE forced to make it like OoT, and as you said it shows that Aonuma was not interested. That does not surprise me as Aonuma is quoted constantly as hating Old-School Zelda.  He never even finished the Original!  And the overworld is extremely empty and not what people wanted.  As a result TP does not hold up, as it seems like a mix of Aonuma style (eccentric fetch questing) with a soul-less classic style attached (the best part of the game was that combat dungeon fighting three darknuts)

Yes, there were “puzzles” in ALTTP, but like anything the bad starts to show when things are still good.  I would argue that the atrocious puzzle-dungeons did not show up until Ocarina, though.  Before that it was mostly labyrinths with minuscule puzzle elements (Pushing blocks and draining water.)  BTW Aonuma’s favorite thing about that game was cutting the Grass!

I LOVED the Overworld of Majora’s Mask, and the Icana Valley is a fascinating area worthy of a game all it’s own.  Nobody complains about the MM overworld.  Complaints are always centered around the atrocious PuzzleDungeons and having to go back and repeat them over and over again. (Great Bay Arghhhh!!!!!!)

Going Forward my model of choice is to Dark Souls for the dungeons, which captures the classic elements of Zelda better than ANYTHING these days mixed with a detailed overworld ala Skyrim (though it should be MUCH smaller).

Of course it does not matter what we the consumer wants.  this is Aonuma and Nintendo we are talking about!  But man it would be great to enjoy a Zelda again!

Four Swords Adventure was an insult to anyone who enjoyed ALTTP.  Fuck that Game!

Minish cap was good, though I would categorize it as more a a successor to Link’s Awakening than ALTTP.

2D Metroid would be incredible these days.

Zelda CAN work in 3D.  It just needs to go back to basics.  though I would not object to a new 2D one provided aonuma gets the fuck out of the way and lets someone who ENJOYS the series develop it.

Mario should stay 2d, but I don’t really care as long as I don’t have to wait 18 years again like between NSMB Wii and SMW.

Looking into assault.  That one looks promising……

I’d be careful about getting your hopes up for Star Fox Assault.  I haven’t tried it, but the reviews I’ve read say that the on-rails Arwing levels are as good as ever.  What’s the catch?  The Arwing levels are only about 1/3 of the game.  The rest of it is tank / on-foot levels.

I wonder why Nintendo never had faith in putting out another on-rails Star Fox?